Race Question...

[imperfectly_green]

Thank you for the Punnet squares, they illustrated the point even though skin is controlled by multiple genes. You did a good job with the squares, though...I love those things...*clears throat* Anyway I don't think Liir's coloring was ever described, besides to say that it wasn't green. I guess I'm a minority, but I pictued Fiyero (bookwise) as having African skin coloring. Perhaps that's just me.

Another note on the Punnet squares, though...let's use blood types as an example for now; I promise this relates to the topic. A and B blood types are both dominant. If someone gets an A blood gene from one parent and B blood from another, the person gets the hybrid, AB type blood. But if they get an A and an O (the recessive) the person has mixed genes (A and O) but has type A blood because A is the dominant gene. And then, if someone had type A blood and mixed genes (A and O) and someone else has O blood (which needs to be pure O and O because O blood is recessive) their child would have a 50% chance of having A type blood (with the mixed A and O genes) and a 50% chance of having O type blood (with O and O genes).

If the same applied to skin coloration, the only way Liir could have mixed skin coloring is if the lighter (Elphie's) and darker (Fiyero's) skin colors were both dominant. Assuming Elphie and Fiyero had parents of the same race (capital letters are dominant, lowercase are recessive) the square would look like this:

__F__F_
E|EF|EF|
E|EF|EF|

Liir would have the mixed coloring, EF skin.
If Elphie's genetic skin was recessive, however:

_F_F_
f|Ff|Ff|
f|Ff|Ff|

Then Liir would have mixed genes but Fiyero's coloration, because his genes are dominant.
And, finally, if Fiyero was of mixed race:

_F_f_
f|Ff|ff|
f|Ff|ff|

Liir would have a 50% chance of getting Elphie's genetic coloring and a 50% chance of getting Fiyero's coloring. At least, that was how I learned it, you can correct me if I'm wrong. But what Emeraldgreengirl said before rings true; skin color is controlled by several genes. These squares show the results if skin coloring was controlled by one gene only.

In other words, unless someone can map the effect that all of those genes would have on Liir and we could trace the genes of Elphaba and Fiyero (because who knows what those two have inherited from whatever ancestry they have), we have no way of knowing what Liir's skin color is unless Gregory Maguire ever decides to tell us. Aagh!

[stars in the sky]

Doesn't Maguire say he's pale, and that Elphaba wishes once for a tint of green in his skin?

[imperfectly_green]

This was what I think you were referring to:

And Sarima had looked at Elphaba, and Elphaba thought her hour of liberationwas at hand at last. "How silly of the boy, he's delusional," Sarima had said at last. "The idea of Fiyero being his father. Fiyero didn't have an ounce of fat on his body, and look at the boy."

Under the terms of her welcome, Elphaba could not prod Sarima to change her mind, but she stared at her hostess, willing to accept the facts. But she wouldn't. "And whoever might the mother be?" said Sarima blandly, touching the hem of her skirt softly. "It's preposterous beyond words."

For the first time, Elphie wished that Liir had at least an undertone of green in his skin.

[stars in the sky]

Yeah, that was part of it, but I'm pretty sure there was mention of his being pale.

[imperfectly_green]

I think you're right. I'll see what I can find... ;D

[emeraldroad]

Eh, I always imagined him having brown skin and long, black hair. I think when Taye Diggs played Fiyero, it was very fitting, minus the blue diamonds and long hair. Liir I always imagined as being pale from Elphaba's parents and being shut up in the mauntery all his life and having black hair (naturally).

[I Mourn the Wicked]

dsr said:

I guess I'm a minority, but I pictued Fiyero (bookwise) as having African skin coloring. Perhaps that's just me.

That's how I pictured him too, primarily because of Avaric's comment. And I've also always pictured Liir being pale, but I don't think Gregory Maguire ever actually says anything about his coloring. But I never saw him as having dark skin, because of the way Sarima's children always treated him as such an outsider.

[I Will Be Popular]

I, being the Wicked obsessed fanatic that I am and seeing this thread, decided to go back and research any refrences to Liir's skin color. Actually, Maguire states that he's pale quite a few times. I marked the refrences in yellow.

Nor and Irji had had an idea to lower him down in the bucket then, but when they swivled the cover off, the lurid gleam of light on pale human flesh had terrified them.

Pg. 282

Elphaba wiped the wet off Liir's pasty face with the edge of her sleeve.

Pg. 283

Liir turned white and pink by turns, and Dorothy had begun to stare blankly at a knothole in the polished wood of the trestle table.

Pg. 397